Help talk:Style guidelines - Revision history

Fochti: Added an {{Emphasis}} box about the purpose of this talk page

2022-08-26T15:38:21Z

Added an {{Emphasis}} box about the purpose of this talk page

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 26 August 2022
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			{{Emphasis\|This talk page should be about how to write, structure, format, and improve the [[Help:Style guidelines]] page itself. For discussions about what the wiki style guidelines should even be in the first place, please use [[Talk:Meta]].}}
	{{Talk}}		{{Talk}}

Fochti: I removed all comments from this talk page because they have already been copypastes to Talk:Meta

2022-08-26T15:35:22Z

I removed all comments from this talk page because they have already been copypastes to Talk:Meta

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:35, 26 August 2022
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	{{Talk}}		{{Talk}}
	~~== Signing lived experiences ==~~

	When writing their lived experience, should the person sign their (user)name? I understand some might not want to have their experience linked to them, so maybe the guidelines could mention that you can put your username if you wish to? I also understand that that might make the articles a bit clunky/harder to navigate --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]]) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

	: We were thinking about adding "Lived experience" sections where it might apply. This alone would make it clear that whatever people put there is 100% subjective. If people want to sign what they put there they can, but no pressure. Once we know how to handle this consistently and elegantly we will update the guidelines. --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

	~~== Handling citations ==~~

	~~How do we do citations? I tried to fix [[Overlapping neurotypes]] but I don't know if that looks right. I want some more info before I fix other pages, please~~

	~~: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])~~

	~~: For now we have this: [[Help:Style guidelines#References]] --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)~~

	~~== Citing community consensus ==~~

	~~How should we assert "distilled wisdom" such as ABA being harmful? (It seems important to do so, see e.g. this thread: https://twitter.com/WIRblog/status/1563002859246956544)~~

	We could use phrases like "Many people within the autistic community agree that...", but we want to avoid "false controversies" (thanks @fochti for this phrase!) where it seems like there's disagreement on a topic when really there's broad agreement.

	Much of what the #ActuallyAutistic community has done is share our experiences until we collectively distill certain things that seem broadly true to us. This is like What We Do, and it would be really valuable to share this knowledge with with new #ActuallyAutistic people and with the world at large.

	~~We're talking about knowledge about knowledge: not just "ABA is harmful", but "There's #ActuallyAutistic consensus that ABA is harmful"~~


	~~=== Special citations for asserting community consensus ===~~

	~~One possibility would be to have have certain special citations:~~

	* [community-consensus]: means there's rough community consensus within the #ActuallyAutistic community
	* [community-controversy]: means there's meaningful controversy within the #ActuallyAutistic community; sizeable groups on more than one side
	* [experimental-theory]: experimental theory, not yet tested and accepted or rejected by the #ActuallyAutistic community at large

	~~Examples:~~
	* ABA is harmful [community-consensus] [1] [2] [3]
	* Most people within the #ActuallyAutistic community prefer identity-first language [community-consensus]
	* Masking isn't worth it [community-controversy]
	* Monotropism explains everything about autism [experimental-theory]


	~~Tags like "[community-consensus]" could link to an explanation of what community consensus means, how knowledge is distilled within the #ActuallyAutistic community, etc.~~

	Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [autistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...

	~~: I really like the idea of special citation tags --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:20, 26 August 2022 (UTC)~~

	~~=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===~~

	~~Alternatively we could write out certain key phrases:~~
	* There's consensus within the #ActuallyAutistic community that ABA is harmful.
	* There's consensus within the #ActuallyAutistic community that most autists within the #ActuallyAutistic community prefer identity-first language
	* There's controversy within the community about whether masking is worth it
	* There's an experimental theory that monotropism explains everything

	~~Writing out the phrases feels a bit wordy, and also shoves the content of the sentence to the end. Could also be written the other way around:~~

	* ABA is harmful, according to rough consensus within the community.
	* Most people within the #ActuallyAutistic prefer identity-first language, according to rough consensus within the community.

	~~But this still feels wordy. I think I like the special citation form.~~

	~~=== Citation storms ===~~

	Another possibility (which we could do in addition to using tags like [community-consensus]) would be to have "citation storms", where we maybe cite like 50 or 100 Twitter threads of lived experience of #ActuallyAutistic people.

	~~But a citation storm can't stand in for something like [community-consensus] tags, because a citation storm on its own doesn't assert that there ''aren't'' other popular views within the community.~~

	~~--[[User:AutExplorer\|AutExplorer]] ([[User talk:AutExplorer\|talk]]) 15:07, 26 August 2022 (UTC)~~

Fochti: /* Signing lived experiences */ Replied to a comment

2022-08-26T15:24:22Z

Signing lived experiences: Replied to a comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:24, 26 August 2022
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	When writing their lived experience, should the person sign their (user)name? I understand some might not want to have their experience linked to them, so maybe the guidelines could mention that you can put your username if you wish to? I also understand that that might make the articles a bit clunky/harder to navigate --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]]) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)		When writing their lived experience, should the person sign their (user)name? I understand some might not want to have their experience linked to them, so maybe the guidelines could mention that you can put your username if you wish to? I also understand that that might make the articles a bit clunky/harder to navigate --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]]) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

			: We were thinking about adding "Lived experience" sections where it might apply. This alone would make it clear that whatever people put there is 100% subjective. If people want to sign what they put there they can, but no pressure. Once we know how to handle this consistently and elegantly we will update the guidelines. --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

	== Handling citations ==		== Handling citations ==

AutExplorer: /* Citing community consensus */

2022-08-26T15:22:35Z

Citing community consensus

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:22, 26 August 2022
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	Another possibility (which we could do in addition to using tags like [community-consensus]) would be to have "citation storms", where we maybe cite like 50 or 100 Twitter threads of lived experience of #ActuallyAutistic people.		Another possibility (which we could do in addition to using tags like [community-consensus]) would be to have "citation storms", where we maybe cite like 50 or 100 Twitter threads of lived experience of #ActuallyAutistic people.

	But a citation storm can't stand in for something like [community-consensus] tags, because a citation storm on its own doesn't assert that there aren't other popular views within the community.		But a citation storm can't stand in for something like [community-consensus] tags, because a citation storm on its own doesn't assert that there ''aren't'' other popular views within the community.

	--[[User:AutExplorer\|AutExplorer]] ([[User talk:AutExplorer\|talk]]) 15:07, 26 August 2022 (UTC)		--[[User:AutExplorer\|AutExplorer]] ([[User talk:AutExplorer\|talk]]) 15:07, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Fochti: /* Special citations for asserting community consensus */ Replied to a comment

2022-08-26T15:20:59Z

Special citations for asserting community consensus: Replied to a comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:20, 26 August 2022
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	Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [autistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...		Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [autistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...

			: I really like the idea of special citation tags --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:20, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

	=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===		=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===

Fochti: /* Handling citations */ Signed my comment

2022-08-26T15:19:13Z

Handling citations: Signed my comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:19, 26 August 2022
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	: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])		: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])

	: For now we have this: [[Help:Style guidelines#References]]		: For now we have this: [[Help:Style guidelines#References]] --[[User:Fochti\|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti\|talk]]) 15:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

	== Citing community consensus ==		== Citing community consensus ==

Fochti: /* Handling citations */ Replied to a comment

2022-08-26T15:18:44Z

Handling citations: Replied to a comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:18, 26 August 2022
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	== Handling citations ==		== Handling citations ==

	How do we do citations? I tried to fix [[~~Overlapping_neurotypes~~]] but I don't know if that looks right. I want some more info before I fix other pages, please		How do we do citations? I tried to fix [[Overlapping neurotypes]] but I don't know if that looks right. I want some more info before I fix other pages, please
	:: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])
			: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])

			: For now we have this: [[Help:Style guidelines#References]]

	== Citing community consensus ==		== Citing community consensus ==

Fochti: Formatting

2022-08-26T15:17:14Z

Formatting

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:17, 26 August 2022
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	* When writing their lived experience, should the person sign their (user)name? I understand some might not want to have their experience linked to them, so maybe the guidelines could mention that you can put your username if you wish to? I also understand that that might make the articles a bit clunky/harder to navigate --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]]) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)		{{Talk}}
			== Signing lived experiences ==

	* How do we do citations? I tried to fix [[Overlapping_neurotypes]] but I don't know if that looks right. I want some more info before I fix other pages, please		When writing their lived experience, should the person sign their (user)name? I understand some might not want to have their experience linked to them, so maybe the guidelines could mention that you can put your username if you wish to? I also understand that that might make the articles a bit clunky/harder to navigate --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]]) 16:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

			== Handling citations ==

			How do we do citations? I tried to fix [[Overlapping_neurotypes]] but I don't know if that looks right. I want some more info before I fix other pages, please
	:: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])		:: It looks good to me --[[User:Fire Eider\|Fire Eider]] ([[User talk:Fire Eider\|talk]])

AutExplorer: /* Special citations for asserting community consensus */

2022-08-26T15:16:37Z

Special citations for asserting community consensus

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:16, 26 August 2022
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	Tags like "[community-consensus]" could link to an explanation of what community consensus means, how knowledge is distilled within the #ActuallyAutistic community, etc.		Tags like "[community-consensus]" could link to an explanation of what community consensus means, how knowledge is distilled within the #ActuallyAutistic community, etc.

	Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...		Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [autistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...

	=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===		=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===

AutExplorer at 15:13, 26 August 2022

2022-08-26T15:13:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:13, 26 August 2022
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	Tags like "[community-consensus]" could link to an explanation of what community consensus means, how knowledge is distilled within the #ActuallyAutistic community, etc.		Tags like "[community-consensus]" could link to an explanation of what community consensus means, how knowledge is distilled within the #ActuallyAutistic community, etc.

			Very open to suggestions about what the actual tags should be. For example maybe instead of [community-consensus] it should be [actuallyautistic-consensus] or [aa-consensus] or [our-consensus] or [consensus] or [consensus-view] or...

	=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===		=== Special language for asserting community consensus ===