ActuallyAutistic Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Tone of voice

2022-08-27T01:00:38Z

Adiffer:

{{Talk}}
== Allistic insights ==

Not interpreting tonal voice elements is almost impossible for those of us who are neurotypical. We are trained since infancy to expect information (often very important stuff) to be communicated that way. This is even more true about body language.

If one had a way to measure information content flowing through each of three channels (body language, voice tone, and words) between two neurotypical people, one could come up with percentages of the total content. Actual percentages vary from moment to moment, but broad averages might be calculated showing what we do. Attempts have been made at gathering this data and the numbers come out roughly as follows.

Body Language: 55% 
Voice Tone: 38% 
Words: 7%

The exact numbers aren't important. What I want to point out is how dependent neurotypical people are on everything that isn't 'words'. Most of what we use to provide context to 'words' comes in the other two channels. It's almost 16 to 1. Something simple like "I enjoy eating pizza" means many different things depending on how it is said.

We only use 'just words' if we have no choice, and it causes all sorts of trouble. Sarcasm as a form of humor is almost impossible across the internet because we can't hear it in a speaker's voice tone. There is a reason so many of us are resorting to emoticons.

I've learned from my son to pull back on context assumptions because I know he doesn't know tonal and body languages as well as he does written English, but most neurotypical people aren't trained like a parent of an autistic child eventually becomes.

[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 00:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

: Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on that! Having stuff explained like this from a non-autistic perspective is very valuable to us and always welcome. :) --[[User:Fochti|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti|talk]]) 00:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:: You are very welcome. I hope it helps all of us cope as we adapt to each other. My sincere hope is that knowing of these channels should help everyone. My father and I had what I call a grunt language. With a few motions and a couple of non-worded sounds (word content =0%), we could convey to each other a great deal about how we were feeling at the moment. We did it without much thought, though. It was one of my sisters who pointed it out to me. She found it hilarious.[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 01:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Tone of voice

2022-08-27T01:00:02Z

Adiffer:

{{Talk}}
== Allistic insights ==

Not interpreting tonal voice elements is almost impossible for those of us who are neurotypical. We are trained since infancy to expect information (often very important stuff) to be communicated that way. This is even more true about body language.

If one had a way to measure information content flowing through each of three channels (body language, voice tone, and words) between two neurotypical people, one could come up with percentages of the total content. Actual percentages vary from moment to moment, but broad averages might be calculated showing what we do. Attempts have been made at gathering this data and the numbers come out roughly as follows.

Body Language: 55% 
Voice Tone: 38% 
Words: 7%

The exact numbers aren't important. What I want to point out is how dependent neurotypical people are on everything that isn't 'words'. Most of what we use to provide context to 'words' comes in the other two channels. It's almost 16 to 1. Something simple like "I enjoy eating pizza" means many different things depending on how it is said.

We only use 'just words' if we have no choice, and it causes all sorts of trouble. Sarcasm as a form of humor is almost impossible across the internet because we can't hear it in a speaker's voice tone. There is a reason so many of us are resorting to emoticons.

I've learned from my son to pull back on context assumptions because I know he doesn't know tonal and body languages as well as he does written English, but most neurotypical people aren't trained like a parent of an autistic child eventually becomes.

[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 00:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

: Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on that! Having stuff explained like this from a non-autistic perspective is very valuable to us and always welcome. :) --[[User:Fochti|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti|talk]]) 00:35, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

:: You are very welcome. I hope it helps all of us cope as we adapt to each other. My sincere hope is that knowing of these channels should help everyone. My father and I had what I call a grunt language. With a few motions and a couple of non-worded sounds (word content =0%), we could convey to each other a great deal about how we were feeling at the moment. We did it without much thought, though. It was one of my sisters who pointed it out to me. She found it hilarious.
[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 01:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Tone of voice

2022-08-27T00:20:15Z

Adiffer:

Not interpreting tonal voice elements is almost impossible for those of us who are neurotypical. We are trained since infancy to expect information (often very important stuff) to be communicated that way. This is even more true about body language.

If one had a way to measure information content flowing through each of three channels (body language, voice tone, and words) between two neurotypical people, one could come up with percentages of the total content. Actual percentages vary from moment to moment, but broad averages might be calculated showing what we do. Attempts have been made at gathering this data and the numbers come out roughly as follows.

Body Language: 55% 
Voice Tone: 38% 
Words: 7%

The exact numbers aren't important. What I want to point out is how dependent neurotypical people are on everything that isn't 'words'. Most of what we use to provide context to 'words' comes in the other two channels. It's almost 16 to 1. Something simple like "I enjoy eating pizza" means many different things depending on how it is said.

We only use 'just words' if we have no choice, and it causes all sorts of trouble. Sarcasm as a form of humor is almost impossible across the internet because we can't hear it in a speaker's voice tone. There is a reason so many of us are resorting to emoticons.

I've learned from my son to pull back on context assumptions because I know he doesn't know tonal and body languages as well as he does written English, but most neurotypical people aren't trained like a parent of an autistic child eventually becomes.

[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 00:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Tone of voice

2022-08-27T00:19:14Z

Adiffer: Created page with "Not interpreting tonal voice elements is almost impossible for those of us who are neurotypical. We are trained since infancy to expect information (often very important stuff) to be communicated that way. This is even more true about body language. If one had a way to measure information content flowing through each of three channels (body language, voice tone, and words) between two neurotypical people, one could come up with percentages of the total content. Actual p..."

Not interpreting tonal voice elements is almost impossible for those of us who are neurotypical. We are trained since infancy to expect information (often very important stuff) to be communicated that way. This is even more true about body language.

If one had a way to measure information content flowing through each of three channels (body language, voice tone, and words) between two neurotypical people, one could come up with percentages of the total content. Actual percentages vary from moment to moment, but broad averages might be calculated showing what we do. Attempts have been made at gathering this data and the numbers come out roughly as follows.

Body Language: 55%
Voice Tone: 38%
Words: 7%

The exact numbers aren't important. What I want to point out is how dependent neurotypical people are on everything that isn't 'words'. Most of what we use to provide context to 'words' comes in the other two channels. It's almost 16 to 1. Something simple like "I enjoy eating pizza" means many different things depending on how it is said.

We only use 'just words' if we have no choice, and it causes all sorts of trouble. Sarcasm as a form of humor is almost impossible across the internet because we can't hear it in a speaker's voice tone. There is a reason so many of us are resorting to emoticons.

I've learned from my son to pull back on context assumptions because I know he doesn't know tonal and body languages as well as he does written English, but most neurotypical people aren't trained like a parent of an autistic child eventually becomes.

[[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 00:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Responding to "How are you?"

2022-08-25T23:53:16Z

Adiffer:

{{Talk}}
== Phatic expressions ==

I propose changing this article's name to '''Phatic Expressions''', explaining what a phatic expression is, why people use them, and then adding sections for other phatic expressions people might use besides this one. For example, recently there was a discussion on twitter about how people use "Let's get coffee sometime" as a phatic expression. [[User:Martienne17|Martienne17]] ([[User talk:Martienne17|talk]]) 11:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

: This is a great idea, actually. For now I'll just add a stub page [[Phatic expression]] and add "See also"-links on both pages! --[[User:Fochti|Fochti]] ([[User talk:Fochti|talk]]) 23:32, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

: Cool. "Let's do lunch some time." "Let's get together soon." etc. There are so many of them we use that even neurotypical people get confused. Non-fluent speakers of a language can have a hard time with these as well. [[User:Adiffer|Adiffer]] ([[User talk:Adiffer|talk]]) 23:53, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

User:Adiffer

2022-08-25T23:46:35Z

Adiffer: Created page with "Hi. I'm a neurotypical father (age 60) of an autistic son who is 23 years old now. I've learned a lot from my son and others like him. I'm willing to share what I've learned and learn more."

Hi.

I'm a neurotypical father (age 60) of an autistic son who is 23 years old now.
I've learned a lot from my son and others like him.
I'm willing to share what I've learned and learn more.

Talk:Body language

2022-08-25T23:41:37Z

Adiffer: Created page with "We allistic types also have to put a lot of effort into learning body language. The only reliable difference I've seen between us all is when we do it. I learned a few things about body language while I was so young that I don't recall doing it. I know I did, though, because a lot of it was about danger detection and threats of violence. Kids learn these things for good reason. I learned quite a bit more about body language when I hit puberty and I remember a conscio..."

We allistic types also have to put a lot of effort into learning body language. The only reliable difference I've seen between us all is when we do it.

I learned a few things about body language while I was so young that I don't recall doing it. I know I did, though, because a lot of it was about danger detection and threats of violence. Kids learn these things for good reason.

I learned quite a bit more about body language when I hit puberty and I remember a conscious intent on my part to learn it. I didn't "think" about it, though. I watched and imitated and then asked myself "what am I feeling when I do that?" Imitation and self-questioning were part of the technique, but they were never expressed internally as words that could be written down. "How do I feel?" was a simple internal desire with no words.

------

My personal suspicion is we all learn body language roughly the same way, but not at the same rate. Those of us who can imitate quickly can cycle through several tests of possible meanings quickly and might get started so young that we don't remember getting started.

I suspect this is also true for picking up "tone of voice" content in spoken communication. I've heard my autistic son cycle through the same phrase with several different inflections. He says them outloud... which isn't all that different from what I did when I was his age.